An Interview With Coleman Charters
Jeremy: Hello again. This is Altalena, and welcome back to an aesthetic education. Today is the first episode in our series of interview and specials where we hear about the realities of working with aesthetics directly from artists and passionate creatives. Today's guest, and our first ever on this show is Coleman Charters. Coleman is a painter based in Phoenix, Arizona, who specializes in vibrant western inspired pieces. Coleman is a dynamic young artist who deals with the spirit of that untapped and natural potential that used to be found in the wild west. I am truly excited for our conversation today. So without further ado, let's get started. Coleman, welcome as the very first guest to an aesthetic education. We are super happy to have you and excited to hear some of your thoughts. And as a young upcoming artist from the western half of this country, we feel especially proud as Americans from that side of the country that maybe people don't think about art quite as much coming from. So thanks. How are you doing?
Coleman: I'm doing well. First of all, thank you so much for having me. It means the world, and I really appreciate being able to do this today.
Jeremy: Fantastic. So I thought we would just kind of get started. Know, it's like a bit of a psychological insight, a little bit of you're not on the couch, Freud is not in the room, but going back in the memories a little bit. So I'm always fascinated to sort of think about where do artists kind of get that little spark of creativity from. So just thinking back to some of maybe your earliest memories about where that fascination with art or creativity, what was kind of that first point where you sort of really thought of yourself as. I'm a creative person, and I like to do this not just for myself, but for others as well.
Coleman: To be honest, I think maybe first grade. I immediately was doodling constantly. Every bit of homework I had, all these different designs all over, all these wacky characters. And I think a lot of that came from how many cartoons I watched. As a know, I absolutely adored Hannah Barbara, Hannah Barbera and all their early cartoons like Tom and know the Pink Panther. Seeing that art as a kid really erased a lot of the intimidation of being an artist. I saw things like, I don't know if you're familiar with any of the early Tom and Jerry title cards, but they're beautiful.
Jeremy: Oh, yeah. Amazing.
Coleman: Yeah. They're quick little scenes that somebody actually painted up before about, what is it? It's a cartoon about a mouse and a cat attacking each other. I remember being very young and seeing that and being like, okay, so art's anything. Art is creation. It doesn't have to be this thing high up on a shelf. So that's definitely one of the first moments in my really young career. I was like, whoa, I'm so excited by this kind of thing.
Jeremy: Yeah, that's amazing. I think people often miss the point, honestly, when it comes to cartoons as an art form and just how much effort kind of goes into the creation of that stuff. And certainly here in America, that was such a huge part of pop culture from the earliest form of animation, really. And to take those steps, I think, took a lot of creativity and a lot of insight, both in terms of, well, how does something look visually good and visually interesting, but also, how do we tell a story with know? So I think that's really. So besides for Tom and Jerry, thinking just back to so you would draw on your homework. I was a former teacher, so I kind of get that. I used to know my students draw and stuff like that. Hopefully it wasn't because they were too bored or things like, so what would you kind of draw? I mean, what were sort of some of the things that you would spark your interest and things like that.
Coleman: I love the idea of characters. I love the idea of looking at a cartoon character and immediately knowing their personality. I really found that amazing, like something you could associate with. I don't even know how to really say it. It was just, you could look at a drawing from one of my favorite cartoons as a kid, and you know, what kind of character that was going to be. So I would really focus on drawing outlandish, strange looking characters. And if I wasn't doing that, I was kind of doing kind of mini reflections of me when I was younger. I don't know. I saw that a lot of the kids were okay with being in school, and I was happy to learn, but I wasn't super happy to be in school 24/7 so I would definitely draw, I don't know, somebody sleeping, somebody bored, somebody running, somebody doing something that I wanted to do. So definitely a lot of little characters running around my homework, anything sitting still, which is what we were assigned to do 24/7 yeah.
Jeremy: Did you ever actually have. And this is just the educational side of my brain thinking, did you ever have the opportunity to use that stuff in your own schoolwork at some point, or. Obviously, did your school kind of have an art program that supported drawing, painting, different types of things? I know my high school had a ceramics program, actually, which was pretty rare, and I don't know if they still do anymore, but things like that right.
Coleman: To be honest, we had an art teacher. I went to a little private catholic school. My parents were just. They were hoping they'd get, like, a head start on high school by doing that. And these people were nice, but they hated me drawing. And to be honest, I think the art teacher was even fairly unhappy. I remember thinking like, wow, I think I'm doing art. But no one's very happy about it. It was strange. It was a very strange dichotomy. I remember a lot of times most of my things were thrown out by a teacher, and I was always like, whatever, I'm just going to keep drawing.
Jeremy: Yeah. In some ways, I think. Does that sort of give you almost the opposite impetus to keep going right. And to sort of think that, okay, well, if other people don't see value in it, I'm going to find value in it my own way?
Coleman: Very much so, yeah. I don't know. Maybe some part of my brain definitely got a kick out of seeing a teacher upset about drawings and seeing them throw it out. I was like, I'm just going to have to make more.
Jeremy: I think that's great. Yeah, no, I think it's interesting. I think it says a lot about our education system in this country. And the fact that something that clearly leads to various other avenues and develops so many other different sort of notions and ideas around critical thinking and things like that often just gets kind of pushed to the side in the name of the norm, as it were.
Coleman: Very much so, yeah. It's incredibly sad a lot of the time, but honestly, I think a lot of the time, it ends up pushing people more to be like, no, maybe for the better.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. So thinking about, and obviously, I'm going to put the caveat out there to our listeners, but I've commissioned work from you. I know your stuff. I love your stuff. But just to kind of. Just to describe, and obviously this is audio, so if, you know, we'll talk, you can give a shout out to your Instagram page at the end. But if you do want to see actual pictures of Coleman's work, he has a website, he's on social media. We'll put links up to that in our description as well. But if you could just kind of give us a sort of rundown of what's typical about your style. What sort of mediums do you like to work with, subject matters that you sort of try and deal with and things like that.
Coleman: If I were to describe my work, I'd say it's a contemporary western collage. I saw a lot of different western art. While I worked in Scottsdale, I worked at a lot of different galleries. And over time, I found out I just didn't want to be a salesperson. But while I was there, the type of westerns I saw were know landscapes, certain know people running from each. The there's the cops and robbers scenario that you always see. And it was cool, but it wasn't what I wanted. In my home. There's a difference between something you want in your house and then a museum piece. Museum pieces are wonderful. Personally, I just chose to go with loud, bright, vibrant colors, first off. And I love the idea of cowboys. I love the idea of the west. So over the last couple of years, have really worked to push those two together. And I also realized that if I threw a little bit of collage in there, it would make more sense aesthetically if I just had the western aspect and the bright colors. I didn't know if I'd get very far with selling to people or getting my name out there. So the collage aspect really definitely makes people do a double take on a lot of my work. And I think it's really benefited me. I'm really happy with that sort of spark that I've found out.
Jeremy: Yeah. I mean, when I first saw your work, I was really drawn to that sort of collage aspect because it is very dynamic and very different, and it's very contrasting because it's oftentimes this very traditional western cowboy motif. But then you obviously have the kind of modern current events of the newspaper clippings and other bits and pieces wrapped in there. And for those of us who've grown up loving the american west, that's kind of what our lives are like. We have the old image of what it once was. And at the same time, obviously, we have the modern world, which is so totally different to the era of cowboys and everything else.
Coleman: No, I hadn't even thought about it like that. It's so funny. There's so many moments where somebody will say something like that, and it's super influential. And honestly, what's the word for it? Inspiring to hear something like that. I'm not even there yet. When I come to thinking about my own paintings, it's really interesting to hear, or to think about how much more thinking you have to do about your own creations. And that's just a super take. I really enjoy that.
Jeremy: Yeah. So do you find it. This is just, as an artist, obviously, not being one myself, but do you find it when you approach a piece, do you really actually plan it out, or it's a lot of gut feeling, and it's sort of based on instinct and what people draw out from that. That's kind of out of your hands almost.
Coleman: When I first really thought I was getting professional with my art, everything was extremely clean and thought out, and it would take seven months to sell a painting. As I got more and more paintings out, I realized I was like, screw it. I can't stay on my mistakes. It looks so much more fluid and so much more. It's intimate in a way. When you make a painting that's full of mistakes, quote unquote mistakes. I look at my paintings now, especially the last one I sent you. It can be described as a little messy. And I really kind of relish in the idea of it's a messy painting. And I love it. It's very emotional. It's a lot of things. And if I stay clean and if I have a plan, it doesn't end up like that. So I think I genuinely like just attacking the canvas a lot of the time.
Jeremy: Yeah. Well, I think just looking at the piece that you sent me, it's one that is. The messiness works, right? The messiness really works, especially with the western motif. Anybody who spent any time in this country and has gone out to the middle of nowhere, be it in California, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, right? All these different places where that kind of rough and tumble vibe was the day to day life of struggle and beauty and rawness and everything else, that's kind of it, right? I mean, that was the west messy. Exactly. It was such an interesting thing as far as the imagery of a cowboy. So what is it sort of about that that you obviously keep returning to in some form or another?
Coleman: I like the fashion. I like the fashion. A. It's. It also relates back to the work ethic of a ranch hand. I mean, no matter who you were in the original west, if you weren't pulling your weight, you're screwed. And I really think that's something that I personally aspire to. It's a constant reminder of, like, you can have fun in life, life can be relaxing at times, but the truth is, you're going to have to keep pushing, even if it's going great. I mean, I had somebody as wonderful as you that commissioned me for a lovely painting that really helped out in my life. There wasn't a second afterwards that I could relax. I had to keep pushing the next painting. And I guess the reason I come back to the west and cowboys and whatnot is it's like I said, really inspiring. My dad put me to work really young and even when I was like, I think it was like second grade, he got me on the lawnmower and he was like, somebody has to take care of the house, man. And me and mom are out trying to run our own business. So you're in charge of the home. And that was such a crazy thought to me when I was younger. But as I've gotten older, honestly, I really appreciate a lot of that hard work that was pushed on me. And I look at it now and I got a lovely, clean, well taken care of home and I carry it with me every day.
Jeremy: Yeah, it's a powerful thought. And I think it also speaks back to, obviously, the influence of family, personal memories. And the cowboy is really that kind of deeply symbolic piece of americana that even to some of our listeners who aren't based in the US will have some sort of image and relatability to that. Right. Which I think is quite powerful. So at what point? Just we're going to dovetail here. So thinking back, so obviously hard worker from a very early stage. So what stage did you think? I want to be an artist. I kind of want to pursue this not just as a hobby, a passion, but to gain some sort of commercial business aspect into that world.
Coleman: That's a great question. I was working in graphic design for a while. I really thought, like, shoot, I don't have any classic art training, so I don't think I'm going to be able to make any sort of suitable money off of this. At the time, I was selling paintings for like $40, which obviously doesn't pay rent and groceries.
Jeremy: Not with inflation, that's for sure.
Coleman: I really wish it did. That'd be a great world to live. Could you imagine going to the grocery store for a month or something like that?
Jeremy: No.
Coleman: I was doing graphic design and I had one company that I ended up working for and it was just, I mean, every day I worked there for a year and they were nice people, but they had all genuinely given up on the idea of not being at work. Twenty four seven. And there's no shame to that whatsoever. Some people genuinely work great when they get to work early in the morning and they clock out. I can understand that. Me personally, I deserve to be at home. I deserve to be in the building that I pay rent for around my loved ones. And the only way I thought that'd be possible is if I got rid of this graphic design job and tried to get into a gallery. And once I got into the gallery that shows me stuff, started selling, and that was genuinely where I was like, if I push this, if I meet people like you, I can make this work and I can be an artist. They say the rest is history.
Jeremy: Yeah, well, exactly. I think sometimes it's really interesting to talk to artists who have been in the industry for a while and compare their stories to artists who are really just trying to get started right now. And really, no matter what era you're in and no matter what point, it's really kind of the same stories all the time, right. Whether it's the gallery path or nowadays, online with social media and ecommerce and all sorts of other things, there's so many avenues, and it's hard, right. It's hard to find your sort of niche within that space. I mean, I've been to Scottsdale. Scottsdale has a really nice art scene and as you say, very focused on the western aesthetic. Kind of similar to Santa Fe a little bit in that sense, but I think it's sort of underrated a little bit. And there's probably a huge. I mean, how many people do you sort of come into contact with that are kind of familiar with Scottsdale art scene and Arizona art in that know.
Coleman: I meet people that know, I meet people that know about the area, but I don't meet a lot of people that are genuinely constantly succeeding over there. I only know two other artists that are working well in Scottsdale. The rest of them are people that are pretty much traveling the US and dropping off their stuff or doing shows and know miles away. So it's very.
Jeremy: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. And I think just right now, with the way the art world is and you can kind of maybe speak to this a little bit. How necessary. I mean, obviously, you said it was once you sort of got into the gallery, that helped massively. So what's the balance, really, that you sort of look at when you're kind of evaluating your gallery relationship versus putting your stuff up online and things like that?
Coleman: Well, for the gallery, there's seasons. The truth is, I can only make my money most of the time because of the snowbirds. They come in and they see my different western and they're like, okay, it's an affordable price. Also, my gallery is really big into helping the community. They constantly advertise that. Would it be all right if I said their name?
Jeremy: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Go for it.
Coleman: I want to be sure. But they're known as art one, and they just really branded themselves as somebody that if you help us out. We're helping our community out. So people see that that is during the winter and the fall and the spring. That's the only time that I will make consistent money. So if I'm working on that during that time, the rest of the year, I have to be really pushing in almost every other day on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok is honestly extremely wonderful to use and it really helps. But the balance is wherever you know, people are going to be buying your stuff, focus in on that moment, that space of time. And when that runs out, go to the next immediately.
Jeremy: Yeah. It's so interesting. And just the balancing act of being an artist and selling something that people want in some ways, but they also don't want it all the time. It's not a must have commodity for survival, even if it makes us maybe aesthetically, spiritually, whatever it is, better. Yeah, really. But I think that's really sort of a little fascinating insight and one that I think a lot of people know sort of begin to come the complexities that a company trying to navigate this modern art world, especially in the US, where it's just so big, it's so massive and so regional. So I'm just sort of wanting just to thinking maybe going a little bit bigger with kind of those ideas, thinking about just sort of as an artist, in your opinion, how do people kind of perceive you? Right? You say you're an artist. What's like that popular conception when you say that you do things like that? How do you think that's kind of almost reflective about the way society almost views the role of the artists today, which I think is maybe not in the space that it probably should be.
Coleman: I completely get what you mean. What was it? It was two thanksgivings ago. I went into a bar that was like famous for everybody in our school or high schools and colleges to go the night before thanksgiving. I have no idea why, but that's what they did. So I walk in and I see people from first grade who knew I was a, you know, and I walk in and we're talking, know, I'm talking to these guys and I'm like, what are you guys doing? And they were explaining that they're stock guys in California. And it was funny because a lot of them were telling me that they were making really good money, but none of them were very happy. And I was like, if we're in our twenty s, if you want to make some money, that's awesome. Just go ahead and tough it out for a little bit and figure out what you want to do with the long rest of your life? One of them comes over to me, we catch up, he tells me again, he's one of the stock guys, and he goes, what do you do? And I go, oh, I'm a painter. And he goes, houses? And I go, no, like canvases. And he goes, oh. And I could feel there a very familiar thing where people hear things like, oh, I'm in a band, or I'm a painter, or I'm a musician or whatever that may be. To a lot of people that aren't in this community that you and me are in, it means scary things. It means a lot of the times that bills may be behind. In my case, every time I've told somebody I'm an artist, they almost have a worried look on their face. And I'm like, no, let me show you some of my stuff. So again with that same guy, I go, yeah, I'm a painter. And he goes, oh, that's cool. And I show him some of my stuff. And he goes, oh, my God, you're like an actual successful painter. And I was like, yeah, I'm trying to be at least, you know what I mean? So it's always so funny that there's this reaction from people that aren't involved in our stuff. They don't understand that it's extremely possible, and it is working, and as long as you grind, it's going great. It's just always funny to hear the reactions of almost worried. Almost like, what does that mean? Confused? Isn't that a hobby? Is what I get a lot. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just a funny thing.
Jeremy: I think it's really sort of interesting the way that people, they want it, and they're like, oh, if you can do it, that's amazing. But the journey to get to that point, right, where, yes, you're earning a living, you're doing well with it, it's growing, there's an audience for it, right? Nobody's interested in that journey, right? Everybody's only interested in knowing you once it's already happened. Right? And then they're like, oh, wow, amazing. I always knew. I always knew you had talent or whatever it is. And I think that's really kind of an insight into how we look at artists. And, I mean, obviously there's so many famous examples of artists who had no respect and no success in their own lifetime. And then only years later, obviously, Van Gogh being probably the most famous in that aspect. But I think it's one of those things where it's like, everybody can recognize the value and the importance of art, and that's why we still do it, and that's why people pay for it in some form. But at the same time, it's also like, there's always that.
Coleman: But why are.
Jeremy: You doing that type of thing?
Coleman: It's especially rotten when you're not able to make more money off of it. It's especially rotten when it's not helping you survive. I remember, like I said, when I was selling paintings for 20, $40, and even if those happened, I was still like, I should have charged more. Or will I really tell somebody that I just sold a painting for $20? It didn't even feel good to me. You know what I mean?
Jeremy: Even though somebody was actually valuing your work at that point?
Coleman: Very much so.
Jeremy: Above anything else is important, right. Because if somebody else values it, then that means that there's some value in what you're doing.
Coleman: Very much so. And the way I thought about it, if it wasn't sky loads, I just still very focused on if it wasn't exactly what I wanted, I wasn't interested, which I had to change up very fast if I wanted to be an artist.
Jeremy: Yeah. I think it's one of those things where if we look at just how the role of the artist has evolved from, like, I don't know if we're going all the way back to the renaissance where you were kind of like, paid for by the wealthy elites, right, to make stuff both for public things and for personal things and whatever else it was, to just kind of that trend to nowadays, where it's very much an independent movement, right? Every artist sort of operates solo, almost. There's not this whole group mentality, which there used to be much more of, where artists would kind of congregate together. I'm thinking of the expressionists, the german expressionists, obviously, the impressionists in France and things like that. And I feel like in some ways, that lack of group power is also impacting how people sort of view. Because it's like, oh, you and everybody else. But if it's like, oh, all of us together, that actually might mean something.
Coleman: That's a very interesting idea. I hadn't even thought about how you're so right. Most artists really are by themselves on the street corner at first Friday. I don't know if you guys do things like first Friday, but it's where if you're an artist or selling clothing, you get out on the first Friday of every month, and you set up a booth, and it's constantly single or doubles at every table and there's not a lot behind them besides, hey, I need to do this or I would like to do this. It's very interesting. Very interesting. Modern.
Jeremy: Yeah, I think in some ways it's just a dilemma. Right. And actually I wrote this down because I wanted to make sure that we sort of got to this question and this idea. But Rothko, he wrote this basically a handbook. It was his philosophy and thoughts on art and he never published it. He just wrote it for he many years after he passed away. His kids found it and they published it. It's really interesting if you haven't read it. I mean, I'm recommending this to Coleman, but also to all of our listeners. It's fascinating stuff, but he kind of talked about in that sort of musing, I would say about the artist dilemma. He said that there's always a dilemma that an artist has to face in terms of the creative and then obviously the practical. So I'm kind of wondering, how do you see your sort of artist dilemma almost? What does that sort of look like from your perspective?
Coleman: The first dilemma that I have with my art is the fact that I need to give it the attention that it deserves meeting people like you, doing things like this wonderful podcast. But at the same time, my dilemma is that I do have a family and I have a partner that we're looking to go to the end of time together. There's so many things where I have to consider Coleman, do you go get a job that can help with our life or do you focus on your painting career? And there is a lot of those points where it's like, well yeah, I deserve some of my own time, but I wake up with a wonderful partner every day that I have to be like, dang, we're in this together. It's not just about my thoughts and dreams because she very much has her own thoughts and dreams as well. So the dilemma is for me personally, and it's not a big dilemma, it's just something I have to keep in the back of my mind that's like you have this world of things that you have chose to focus on and the truth is that you need to care about everything as much as you possibly can and it can be very exhausting. We also have two cats and a dog. I love them. And what a heart. Take on that as well. To be like, not only do we need groceries this week, grocery money, but we need pet supplies. And I'm like, why?
Jeremy: It's a menagerie. Yeah. So I'm thinking, then I think that's a great answer. I think it's so unique to each person, and I'm fascinated to hear. Now we've heard your opinion, and hopefully down the line, we'll be interviewing a few other artists, just kind of compare and contrast what people are thinking about when they think of that dilemma. So my last kind of main question then we'll go into our little quickfire questions is, what do you think? You're an artist. You're a young artist, you're doing your thing. Contemporary art is vast, and if we want to get, like, ultra contemporary, whatever you want to call it, right. There's so many different things happening. What do you kind of think, just from your perspective, will be the. I don't want to say, but the main idea, the main takeaway, like something memorable that will come out of contemporary art in the next ten years or so.
Coleman: To be honest, man, there's still a ton of people that try to do this thing that's like they say, I don't get it. I think the thing to come out of contemporary art is you don't have to be selling an idea. A lot of my paintings, I have a lot of meaning behind the one that you commissioned me. But a lot of times I'm just painting, and I'm just trying to make something that's pleasing to my eye. It's not as heavy as it should be. And with contemporary art, I think we're getting more towards. Art doesn't have to be this heavy thing. It doesn't have to have 10,000 miles of explanation behind it or a story or even really meaning it's okay to just have something very pretty or, screw it, something ugly in front of you. Ugly is fine, man. You know what I mean? If some of my stuff turns out ugly, I'm like, well, at least there's an emotion. You know what I mean?
Jeremy: Yeah, exactly. I think it's going to be really interesting to sort of see how that develops. Right. But, yeah, beauty at the core is really the fundamental thing that hopefully somebody somewhere appreciates it. Right? Perfect. I think let's get to our kind of three sort of just fun little ending questions, hopefully. So it's like, imagine that you have a freedom of choice here, right? No limits and everything else. But I would love to know, if you could see an artist work in person that can be alive or dead, who would you want to?
Coleman: I could. If I could take a trip. Again, this always comes back to cartoons. It was very important to me as a kid, if I could go to Cartoon network and really watch, what is this darn name? I'll forget it just for the sake of it. But he did a show called adventure time, and adventure time was just the biggest thing for my head and the most positive growth I could watch. But to watch those people draw, that'd be amazing.
Jeremy: Perfect. So if you were stuck with only one medium for the rest of your life as a painter, whatever form you might take, what would you actually think? What would that be?
Coleman: Oh, a black Sharpie, man. Nothing better. A black Sharpie or some indian, something like that. That's where I started. If you made a mistake, it was there. You know what I mean? You're screwed. Deal with it.
Jeremy: Yeah. Just got to keep going. Yeah. I love it. And then the last thing is really, when somebody sees your piece in person, obviously, we're going to give that benefit so that you see it physically in person. What's kind of that feeling? What's that sensation that you want them to sort of leave with after they've seen something that you've made?
Coleman: I think the strongest feeling in art, to me, is walking by something that I've never seen and going, whoa. Whether that's good or bad, whether that's ugly or trash quickly made or long manufacture time, it's so enjoyable to hear people go, I've never seen something like that. Our world is so populated with constant recreations, which is okay, I don't have a problem with it. But to see something that's truly original, christ, man, that's amazing. That's almost impossible. You know what I mean?
Jeremy: Yeah. And that's the dream. Yeah, it really, it. I love it. Well, Coleman, thank you so much for being on an aesthetic education with us. You want to give a quick shout out to your socials and everything else?
Coleman: Sure. Yeah. My biggest one is definitely just ytho art. That's either the URL for my website, like ww dot ytho art, or my instagram is just ytho art. And I believe my TikTok is the same. Yeah, ytho art. It's pretty much where, but absolutely everything.
Jeremy: I will link everything into our descriptions for this episode, but, Coleman, thank you again. It's been fantastic. It's been super insightful, and I'm sure that we will have you back on, hopefully in the not too distant future. If you enjoyed this show, please give us a follow on your preferred podcast listening platform, as well as on Instagram or Facebook, where you can find us under Altalena art, a link to this week's podcast can also be found on our website, Altalena art slash aesthetic education. If you are interested in seeing more of Coleman's paintings, the links to his website and social media can be found in the description of this episode. Thank you very much for listening and we look forward to welcoming you back real soon.
